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YouTube Comments - 53 Comments
Top Comments of this video!! :3
Wynton Marsalis can be âblamedâ for a lot of this, but at the same time the âart-musicificationâ preserved mainstream jazz as a practice when it was at its lowest ebb financially. I suppose a similar thing may happen with rap in the coming decades.
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âI am bored, canât the guitarist use more effects pedals?â Thatâs the voice of depth in the room. It happens somewhere every day.
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You are talking about a specific experience and that's fine, but people seem to expand this 30 second comment about one event in a random conservatory to the situation of jazz today. There are so many jazz musicians creating beautiful "jazz" music today, like Julian Lage, Lionel Loueke, Gretchen Parlato, Aaron Parks, Bill Frisell, Brad Mehldau, Jacob Bro, Fred Herch, Florian Weber, Joe Lovano, Shinya Fukumori, Kamasi Washington, Tigran Hamasyan, Avishai Cohen (the bassist and the trumpeter), Ben Monder, Ingrid Jensen...
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Samuel, I studied Jazz piano at a conservatoire in London. You have perfectly articulated my criticisms. We studied the technical intricacies, but what I thought was severely lacking was the "why" behind the music. It felt so shallow and superficial to me, not learning the motivations and artistic inspirations of the Jazz greats that we studied. It's such a shame. It totally put me off music in general for years and I've only just renewed my love for it
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What are your thoughts on John Zorn? I'd love to see someone do an analysis of his work, especially his chamber stuff. I feel like he's a great artist that addresses exactly what you're talking about here. Operating within the genre of classical and jazz, but not at all afraid to break from tradition and the restraints of the academic world
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It's hard for me to think of any vital musical movements that came from the academy. The academy always comes in after some artistic approach has matured, then nails it down, codifies it, and kills it dead.
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Thank you for standing up and saying the truth, Samuel!
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okay, I'm not much for video shorts, but this is an excellent observation! WHAT is artistically happening? HOW can we teach artistry in the context of historical reverence?
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It's about formalization existing "stuff" and than becoming someone as in the movie "Copying Beethoven". I think there is nothing wrong with a formalistic approach of literature, film and music at itself. It only has the danger that people instructed to use that protocol are only able to copy that "formula" but with the danger it will be soulness... and without heartpulse. When you make/invent yourself that formula coming from within your personality I'm sure you will feel the difference... And this by the personal need and motivs to invent that formula, based on your individuality-personality. This can influence even the musical motivs, so to speak... Most of copied formula/protocol lacks the original person(ality) and the entirely framework around. As a copiist you don't have that same vibrating framework in which this kind of music was originally generated and was developed and is played (or literature is written or movie is made). So, on a certain level the copying stuff will be felt as unreal... not authentic... a maybe even somewhere fake... Too much elements of the real equation are missing : the real herbal and often hidden (alche)mix!
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excellent points
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Jazz musician, aspiring composer here. Please forgive my ignorance and help me out here. But, to me it sounds as if you are describing the vast majority of "classical" music. I only recently become aware of current orchestral work and that was because of enrollment in a film scoring program..
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As someone who tentatively calls himself a jazz musician I kind of concur. The problem I think, without wishing to show disrespect to musicians that are obviously technically gifted is that it's taught upside down.
Improvisation is kind of formalized out and formula has taken its place. Of course true improvisation still needs to come from a place of knowing the musical language you are speaking but allowing a moment to inspire where it goes.
Maybe it is what happens when such a subject is treated academically.
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at the same time , if everyone did great then the rarity of greatness dissipates. i think nature has gifted true creativity to the very few, and within this small group, fewer have been cursed with fanatism to pursue the artform that has no financial reward. So Sam, if you stumble on someone creative enough and is creating amazing things, then you might want to get on your knees and praise the lord, because the next day you might be struck by lighting 7 times in a row
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I think it's fair to expect that from undergraduate jazz students as they often have only been playing jazz in academic contexts and thus haven't had much chance to play jazz as gigging musician. If this was a masters recitals though I would expect more. I think this is a huge problem with a lot of students who go straight from undergrad to a graduate degree in a music where you can only find your voice by playing a lot in real world settings in venues where your job is to entertain. They study the masters of the past without caring very much at all about the shared ethos of these masters.
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Could be talking about all music in academia - especially that of the "art" style.
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Nobody in jazz will admit this, but learning jazz basically means just learning jazz standards. And for anyone who doesnt know, there is no sheet music for jazz, they only use lead sheets as found in the Real Book. So learning jazz standards requires a student to listen to and play by rote interpretations of jazz standards by well known jazz artists. What this creates is exactly what Samuel describes, a jazz scene where everyone is just copying well known jazz greats. Its really sad, because there is plenty of technical things to learn from jazz, but jazz nor any other music should be copied. Worth noting that this problem is even worse in classical music as of course sheet music does exist in abundance for classical pieces and there is very little room for any kind of composition or improvisation, not counting of course modern avant garde classical which is trash.
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My new hero! (Of course, nothing against jazz in ANY way). // I may as well invite other to come see my Theory of Pitch Psychology with claims to have found and defined specific emotions and themes that are intrinsically (naturally) related to specific keys.
Your, Acoustic Rabbit Hole
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I'm not surprised, but why would your experience be different from attending a student recital of 'serious concert' music? Students mostly parrot what they hear and what their instructors expose them to. If they happen to produce original material they won't do it till they've left school. And teachers of jazz theory tend to ignore 3rd stream and avant-garde jazz, explaining why student jazz composers are academic, uninspired.
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genuine question because this puzzles me a little bit: if you knew that you couldn't really judge the music as a non jazz musician, why did you agree to be on the jury? was there nobody else around?
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@freedomfilms974
4 months ago
Jazz should be adventurous and exciting with a sense of danger to it. At any moment the piece could go completely unhinged. Thatâs how I like my jazz.
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